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Your life. Welcome to the Ordinary Discipleship podcast with Jesse. My name's Chris. And with us today is Julia. I am so excited about today's topic because it's one of those things where I got to tell you a story. Can I tell you a story? Story? Storytime with Chris. Love it. Okay, cool. I never had any intention to be a pastor.

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I wanted to be in radio and TV. I got to do that. But then God just opened a path and I became a pastor. I remember the first time I went up to give a sermon. I'm walking up the long alleyway in Lake Mary, Florida. Is there a plank at the end of that? It seemed like it. It seemed like it.

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But just check this out. I never had anything like this happen to me before. I'm walking out. I'm already sweaty. Jacob's mom, who was on the previous podcast, she caught me before I went out. And she's a great woman. She goes, Don't tell them everything you know. Okay. That was the advice she gave me as like, okay, cool.

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That is really great advice. Don't tell them everything you know. Just 20 minutes. Let's go. You know, I'm walking down to the altar and I hear this recurring, like, not audible voice, but just the thought in my head. And it's like, super dark. And it says to me, Who do you think you are? Who do you think you are?

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How dare you, you imposter. Sit down. Don't go up there. Everybody in the pews knows more about this than you. What do you think? You're not fooling anybody. And I mean, it's just like recurring in my head, you know? And I'm already. I. You know, I didn't grow up in the faith. I feel totally unqualified. I'm really starting to like second guess life decisions at this point, you know?

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So I remember getting up to the altar and I had my sermon already up there, and I just like everybody is looking at me and I'm hearing that voice. And I just had to, like, close my eyes and say, God, I like, need you right now or I am. So host, Like, host. And I said that twice. The voice went away.

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They said it was the most brilliant sermon in the history of sermon. No, I just love it. No, that's not true. That is not true. Yeah, it was very sloppy, but it kind of brings me to the topic today, guys. What we're talking about, like. About. Well, I'm sure you've had it. Everybody here has been a pastor at a church.

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I don't feel qualified to disciple. How many times have you gone to somebody as you're trying to start a You are. I'm sorry. Maybe it is a youth group. Maybe it's a small group. And you go to the person that you think like God is calling you to go to and you're thinking they're going to be super pumped for this.

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And you go to them and they're like, Dude, I do not feel qualified to do this. Yeah, Yeah. And you're like, dang. Like, if you're not qualified, nobody is. So that's what we're going to speak on today. I don't feel qualified. And I'm talking I'm not talking as a pastor. I'm talking about just your everyday person that goes to church or house, church, whatever.

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But that doubt that can come to us when we're asked to step up into some type of position that requires discipleship. Like not feeling qualified. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's. I mean, it's a universal attack, right? Yeah. Which means the the things that go through our head are various things that people have said, you know, expressed when say, hey, I believe you're I believe God is asking you to disciple because you follow Jesus, like, Right.

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Like because of that. And they're like, I don't feel qualified because things I've heard is like, I haven't been a Christian that long. I don't have the Bible memorized. I don't think I can ask the answer the questions like, that one. I get a lot. Like, I don't I can't do this small group because what if they ask a question?

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I don't know the answers to hardly anything, you know, or Hey, I'm kind of struggling with a thing right now. Whether it's a sin or a doubt. You know? So they're like, No, not not this season. Like, let let me get this part of my relationship with God or relationship with myself. Figure it out. And then and then maybe.

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Right. So and the things, the voices in our head that tell us, not you, not now, maybe not ever are vast, right? They're vast. And people share them all the time. And they're they're real, right? It's not that I don't think that people don't want to participate in the great commission of, you know, telling other people that God is amazing and and Jesus loves them.

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I think people feel overwhelmed by the ask. They feel inadequate and unqualified for the ask. And, you know, there are various reasons for that. Right. One of them that I think about a lot is we have people on TV that are preachers that are amazing. We have these, you know, people that you've heard of, people who write amazing books.

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Hopefully I'm on that list with the amazing book, you know, Just downloaded it today, by the way. Yeah, I'm being sarcastic. I'm a Gen Xer. I love sarcasm, but the they think about these other individuals that are killing it and famous in some way or at least, you know, and they're like, I'm not like that. Right. Or even a pastor or a preacher that they really like.

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And they're like, but I'm not that therefore I'm not qualified. Right? In that comparison is part of our problem. Yeah, part of our problem comparison is awful. And I even think about what you just brought up. I remember we were just a week ago we had like a youth group event and I said, Hey, man, somebody's got to pray.

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And like, nobody raised You want everybody to be quiet. Ask somebody in the room to pray. What were you saying, Julianne? Well, what I was going to say, it's, you know, or you've tried before and you've been put you've been in that position where you've tried to be, you've tried to disciple people. You know, I was 19 years old and I was I you know, people recognize that quote unquote, calling on my life and said, you need to go lead our children's ministry.

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And then a year later, you need to go lead our youth ministry. So I'm leading a following up from a youth pastor who is phenomenal. One of the great influences on my life, 20 years old, leading a youth group and within a year I've washed out of ministry, right? And so now I'm 21 years old and I've considered myself washed out of ministry.

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And I'm going like, am I qualified? I was in Bible college. I've never felt like I because I felt like I had to be a pastor. I felt like I had to do all the right things. Just what you were talking about. Jesse in order to disciple other people. And what I've discovered throughout my life in just following Jesus is that that's not the case.

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But I didn't start there. It's been a long process of being of of journeying with people because I'm not usually on I'm not I'm not the senior pastor. I'm not the senior leader. So what I'm looking, you know, but I have been a life group director of life groups that had to get people to to run small groups.

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And when you make the ask of people, you're like, why doesn't everybody if this is the great commission and all of us are supposed to do it, it should be pretty easy. So why don't I feel qualified? And you go, okay, it's got to be more than just a competency issue for us. It actually has to be something that maybe it's like a Genesis three moment where what was the first lie that the enemy, you know, said, you know, does God really did God really say right, right, right.

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That he makes us doubt. He makes us doubt that we are actually who we say we are, or that God that we are who God says we are, and that we can do what God says that we can do. And so if God says, This is who you are and this God says This is what you're supposed to do, surely there is a He's given us what we need to be that.

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Yeah, but how many of us actually believe that? Right? And, and I mean, have you guys ever either have you been told that you weren't qualified to make disciples? Almost every week, as I've been told for you, I. I was told because of my gender I wasn't qualified to make a disciple. I've also been told that because I am a smart.

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and use big words that I'm not qualified to make disciples. Because you're too smart to make disciples. I mean, I certainly was. I had somebody say, you know, don't don't show them you're who you are in the room because it's going to overwhelm them. And I believe each that I was talked out of telling my story for a decade, my goodness, because someone said other people won't be able to relate to a woman in the wilderness who disciples other people.

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And that was like a leader that that was a leader giving me his best wisdom. So so I didn't tell my own stories for a decade at crazy. That's crazy how the enemy works. Like, like that. I Julia, I think I want to be the voice of the people listening right now. Yeah. Because you said something and then you just kind of scooted over it, and then we're going to return back.

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So you started in youth ministry in 1920? I was children's Ministry 19, youth ministry at 20. And you were done after that at 21, so you were burnt out or not? Well, I ended up I ended up quitting. Like I was like, I can't do this. You know why? Why? If I'm being I did not feel qualified, okay?

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That's why I didn't I didn't feel qualified. And I felt like and, you know, I mean, you talk about people telling you that you didn't do it. You know, parents go to my boss and say like, she can't do this. You know, the very people that say you can't are the same people that say you shoot in the back and it's not.

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And I'm not saying that, you know, in a disparaging way. You know, it's like I believed it, too. Yeah. And I'm going and I'm going, Well, maybe I'm I'm supposed to be the number two, right? And so I actually did that. I came back into youth ministry about two years later, and I served in that number two position with a phenomenal youth pastor.

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And we saw in youth ministry, we saw young adults that were very gifted in and so I saw discipleship happening and I was and I disabled people, but I was doing it a very different way than in that senior leadership position. I had girls over at my house. I was hanging out with them. I would just speak into their life and yet I didn't see that as discipleship.

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Yeah, you just saw that as hanging out, having a good time, hanging out, having a good time, which is crazy because that's partly discipleship, that's completely discipleship. Yeah, as an adult I see it, but as but as a 23 year old, I mean, I remember going to youth conference at 23 and Summit and the, the very wonderful youth pastor had all of us stand up.

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He says, If you're 23, you've already washed out of youth, you know, you've already passed your primary. my goodness. And I just felt like we were just getting He was saying that as a joke, obviously. Yeah, right. But but I really what I got to see and experience for a decade was just in youth ministry, just a group of people discipling one another.

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And I saw a phenomenal group. We had a, you know, youth leadership team of 40 kid, 40 young adults who were, you know, from 16 to about 20 years old on average, who were discipling these 14 to 18 year olds and would do that for just and to this day, those are still some of my best friends. And I call them kids, but they're now 40.

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But yeah, right, right. But you see that that's what it's meant to be. It's life on life. It's investing in people. And that really is it's like, So is everybody qualified? Yes. If you actually will put if you'll actually invest in other people. Yeah. You know, Jess and I both have studied brain science quite a bit. So I, I notice you said something there in which it was interesting that you said that the previous pastor was a complete rock star.

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Right. And then they take off. And I see that a lot. Right? You have a founding pastor and then the next pastor comes in and everybody's like, you're not that guy. You know, we like that guy. We came here because of that guy or girl. And so that's interesting. I wonder if that kind of fed into, I'm sure it did.

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Yeah. So talk about that. Just we are so many people like, okay, here's a story about my son. My son is fantastic. He's a great kid. He loves cars, he loves building Legos, is the biggest introvert in the world. I don't know where he got it, but he is. And for years I've been trying to get him to play sports.

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And he won't do it because he's never thought that he's good enough. Yeah, and I don't know who put that expectation on him. I'm like, Never, you know, we'll throw the football. But he never wants anybody to watch him do it. And so I wasn't going to be one of those dads that said, you've got to play football or basketball, right?

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So you just never really got into sports. I think sometimes that can happen in discipleship. And what I mean by that is if you don't think that you can't if you think that you can't answer all the questions, if you think you're not a spiritual superstar, then you think that you can have no part in the discipleship process, Right?

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The whole idea of having these superstar examples we think is really good, right? But I think it is it taps into that comparison thing where you're like, I'm I'm not that informed ever. It is that you're not that thing, right? That's where I think the enemy comes in and tricks us and lies to us and says, well, you have to be that in order to be effective or to be a disciple maker when the truth is, is that the enemy is also picking on that person, saying you're not good enough, you're not qualified enough, You don't know actually, like like the enemy lies to every single one of us in this place.

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So I think that's kind of why we need each other to encourage that so that you can say, well, what if if you tell me you don't feel qualified? I'm like, Well, tell me more about that. Tell me about what you think it would make you qualified. What do you think you want to you know, that you're shooting for so that I can help you unpack why that's not necessary right in your mind.

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But I think more than that, to know, like, we have to kind of change how we think about God in this situation. Like for the people who told me that my personality or different things were a hindrance to me and I and I, like Julia, agreed, Sure believed leaned into being different. Like, what we're doing then is we're giving each other souls armor.

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We're trying to make somebody else into something that they're not. And my firm belief is that God made you the way that you are on purpose. Even if I don't like you, God likes you, right? And he doesn't like regret that he made you that way. He doesn't repent for the personality he gave you. In fact, he gave you that specifically to reach certain people.

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Are you sure about that? Because there's some people that are really tough. Well, they're just not for you. there's someone else. okay. Okay, okay, Good, good, good. God, doesn't make mistakes. yeah. Really? Yeah, yeah. And I think having to overcome our personality. Yeah. In order to be a disciple maker, I don't think that's good story for us at all.

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He actually intentionally made us the quirky, weird ways that we each are with our own strengths and weaknesses, because we need everybody to reach somebody, right? My friend Dave Rhodes says it's not that you have to be go to everyone everywhere, but that you go to someone somewhere. So that whole qualification, an idea is part of that trapping temptation.

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And I think what we need in order to overcome that is somebody who believes in us, someone who supports us, even if it's just one or two others, or even, let's say, someone who draws it out of us, right? Maybe sometimes the Lord is faithful enough to send us the person who asks us to mentor them. And we're like, I don't know if I can do that exactly, But they I mean, if somebody likes you and wants to listen to you enough to ask you to pour into their life, like you should really think about that.

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That's a that's a huge privilege. So when we have these exemplars that nobody is, I think we set ourselves up for this gap, for the shame that we feel when I think God isn't looking for exemplars, He's looking for faithfulness because Jesus is the only exemplar we need. It's interesting. I had so many people come to me when we were doing small groups and they said the exact same thing that they said to you what the number one question by far, what if somebody asked me a biblical question and I don't know the answer to it?

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I said, So what I say, I'm not sure I'll get back to you, but let's look that up. Let's look it up together. Together. Right. But like disarming the power of that threat, You know what I mean? Like, that's I think that's super important. You don't have to be the LeBron James of biblical studies. Right. To make a disciple, I think is what we're saying here.

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And I've discovered the more I learn, the less I know. You know, it's like as I'm following the Lord, like the more I get to know the Lord, the less the more okay I am with not knowing everything because he is that trustworthy, right? And if we if as where you know, I heard somebody say, and I'm stealing this from somebody, so whoever it is, I'm giving you credit at the front end, you know, like, am I following Jesus to the extent that I know him?

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Or are we helping others follow Jesus? Are we actually helping others to know Jesus more in such a way that they continue to trust him more? And there continuing to lean in to him more and not into what they do know or don't know, but actually into what what God wants to reveal to them. And that is that's a love relationship that comes out that we can give others based upon what we can receive from him.

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Okay, Nice. All right. Final segment of this, this podcast. And anybody can take this elevator speech, three sentences or less. What are you going to say to somebody that says, I'm not qualified to be a disciple maker? My answer, he says, no. You said three. You know, I said, that was one. So now my answer. Now you got two sentences left.

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God says that you are. So let's let's find out how he wants you to do that and I will support you. Let's make sure you have a you know, I want to make sure that you have a coach or someone to help you be brave enough to do that. So I think you're only responsible for what you know.

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You're only responsible for what you know. Yeah. You're only responsible for what you know. And so to the extent that you know Jesus, you share that with people. Well, and that's incredible for you, because you say as you keep learning, you're learning less, you know, less. So you're only responsible for what you need. You also. I know. So I in a sense, I'm less responsible.

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Way less responsible. Absolutely right. Yeah. Man, man. Okay. Thank you for listening to the ordinary Discipleship podcast. WATKINS Someone do if they want to know more information about who ology about ordinary discipleship, if they want to get to one of your books, come on, tell them. Just so we've got a couple of websites. So ordinary discipleship dot com you can get more podcast episodes we'd love for you on the podcast episode.

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So in the comments, comments like Is there anything you want to learn about when we think about next season, you know, what are your questions? What do you want us to dive into so you can go there and lean into that aspect of things by the ordinary discipleship book from there. Or you can go to who ology Echo, which is Prolog.

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Why not SEO? We've got some classes, some cohorts, online classes. You can take and things there to clean up. Some new stuff. Always whipping up, whipping up some new stuff in the wild kitchen. Is that what I hear? All right, guys, thank you so much for joining us today on the Ordinary Discipleship podcast. Take care. Bye bye.