Reyna Martinez (00:03.038)
Anyways, to answer your question in a louder context, I am from Thornton, Colorado, and I work with Jessie. am, yeah, I'm like 10 minutes from her right now. She said, no, you're not allowed to be here. You have to go home. And I said, did I figure this out on my own? She did. Very sad.

Chris Johnson (00:06.222)
Thanks

Chris Johnson (00:17.131)
Okay.

Chris Johnson (00:21.698)
Gotcha. So she kicked you out. I get it. Now she's very famous. That's the thing with Jessie. She's very famous and she has red hair. I mean, she's just, I mean, every time she goes out in the streets in Denver, it's like, Jessie, what's up? It's very hard for her. So I get it.

Reyna Martinez (00:35.185)
With black undertones, yeah.

Reyna Martinez (00:41.795)
No, she really does have people just walk up to her, I'm sure. Jessie!

Chris Johnson (00:46.284)
I know, I get it. Yep.

Jessie Cruickshank (00:49.932)
It is starting to happen. Anyway, it's weird. Anyway!

Reyna Martinez (00:52.976)
scary.

Chris Johnson (00:53.878)
Never happened one time to me or Jacob, but that's cool.

Reyna Martinez (01:01.17)
Maybe that means you have to dye your hair a really noticeable color.

Chris Johnson (01:04.046)
I'm going to season three. I'm going red. 100 % going to do it.

Reyna Martinez (01:07.74)
red.

Jacob (01:08.715)
When my wife told me she didn't want me to be a celebrity, said, what does that mean? She said, like, people can't recognize you in public. I said, how about just at a church conference? And she said, OK,

Chris Johnson (01:15.36)
Hmm.

Reyna Martinez (01:16.83)
Mmm.

Chris Johnson (01:17.942)
And you said, okay, Abe Lincoln lover, whatever.

Jacob (01:20.647)
All right.

Jessie Cruickshank (01:23.81)
least you don't have a pointy hat, like a big hat. If you just had a big hat, you would have a brand and then, but maybe she'd go for that.

Reyna Martinez (01:25.79)
Bye bye.

Jacob (01:26.241)
huh. huh. That's right. Right. Yeah.

Chris Johnson (01:30.67)
All right. So wait a second. Let's okay. And this is weird coming from me, but being serious for a second. Do you want me to start it off? Introduce Jesse, introduce Reina, introduce Jacob, and then throw it to Reina and talk about Reina. had an interesting conversation where you what what is Reina doing? She's shaking her head. No, you're not want to speak.

Jessie Cruickshank (01:33.464)
Thank

Reyna Martinez (01:51.28)
No.

You

Jessie Cruickshank (01:56.984)
Just ignore her face.

Jacob (01:57.141)
No, think actually, I think Jesse could start because Jesse, you often talk about helping people understand Gen Z and that would allow you to set up brain in a way that she's gonna feel more comfortable.

Chris Johnson (02:00.344)
Let's do it. Yeah.

Chris Johnson (02:07.906)
Perfect. Let's do it. And Raina clearly is more comfortable with you than me. So let's go.

Reyna Martinez (02:09.63)
I'll not feel comfortable... No... In general. I'm not comfortable in general. I don't feel like that's important to know. That's true!

Jessie Cruickshank (02:12.462)
She's not comfortable, like, outside of the house.

Jacob (02:19.361)
Mm hmm. So part of being Gen Z actually turns out we'll talk about that later.

Chris Johnson (02:20.344)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Cruickshank (02:20.665)
Chris Johnson (02:23.406)
I'm

Jessie Cruickshank (02:26.958)
Alright, alright, I'll get us going here, okay? Alright.

Reyna Martinez (02:27.326)
Yeah.

Chris Johnson (02:30.094)
All right, let's do it.

Jacob (02:31.713)
Well, and do want Chris to do his thing where he yells real loud that this is the ordinary discipleship podcast? Okay. Yes.

Jessie Cruickshank (02:36.524)
Yes, I do. I do want him to... because they've heard your voice now for seasons. Chris, you gotta... you know, you're the hype guy.

Reyna Martinez (02:39.87)
Sounds great.

Chris Johnson (02:46.892)
I am. I just hyped the crap out of 200 kids. It was so fun. I was sweating profusely like I haven't worked out in five years. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. Let's get this going. Season two of the ordinary discipleship path. and where have I been?

Jessie Cruickshank (03:00.096)
It's season five, but it's okay. We split the other two's up.

Reyna Martinez (03:03.486)
That's true.

Jacob (03:05.505)
We turned last year's recording was two seasons and then we did an interview season.

Chris Johnson (03:12.782)
Okay, season five.

Jessie Cruickshank (03:13.4)
we haven't done anything without you

Chris Johnson (03:24.056)
Okay, that's fine. All right, we're good. I'm gonna do a quick intro and I'm gonna toss it to you, Jesse, and then you're gonna introduce Raina and we're gonna crush this thing and it's gonna be awesome. And Saddleback's gonna be like, where have you been my whole life? And we'll be like right here, sweetheart.

Chris Johnson (03:44.846)
Right here.

Reyna Martinez (03:46.686)
you

Chris Johnson (03:47.884)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Ordinary Discipleship podcast. We are in season five and we are so excited to be with you as we share just practical tips and conversations about what it's like to be a disciple and to make disciples here today. I am with the one and only Jesse. Jesse, why don't you take it over right now and you tell them what we're going to talk about today because I am so excited about it.

Jessie Cruickshank (04:09.792)
Yes.

Jessie Cruickshank (04:16.194)
Well, we have a special guest today. We have a special guest. Her name is Reyna and Reyna is someone who's in my life and part of my church and discipleship and part of the Hoology family. And I mean, to be honest, Chris, she's my token Gen Z-er.

Chris Johnson (04:18.595)
WHAT

Chris Johnson (04:38.382)
Did you know that Reina in Spanish means queen? Did you know that? Did you know that? So we are talking to Queen Martinez right now. That's a pretty big deal. That is a pretty big deal.

Jessie Cruickshank (04:43.828)
Yes we did. We did. Because we are. In fact,

Reyna Martinez (04:49.04)
No, no, no.

Jessie Cruickshank (04:54.754)
Yeah, in fact, her her part of her world in out in the world is Queen's catalyst. She knows who she is and she knows part of what her calling is. So so she's my token Gen Z. And that's and that's part of her identity at this point, because as I tell Raina often, she is the voice of her generation. And so she

Reyna Martinez (05:06.376)
That's true.

Chris Johnson (05:11.566)
you

Reyna Martinez (05:15.251)
Yikes.

Chris Johnson (05:20.814)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jessie Cruickshank (05:22.604)
what she says, she has to think about, you know, her responses because we will extrapolate them to all Gen Z-ers. So it's just a heavy load, but she bears it well. So Reyna, we're really happy to have you here.

Chris Johnson (05:38.136)
Go ahead, Queen.

Reyna Martinez (05:39.878)
thanks. Thanks for all that. What I will say is I am just the smallest part of Gen Z. I'm on the early side. I don't even think they would claim me, but that's just how the world has decided that generations work. We just accept their fate. Listen, I just...

Jessie Cruickshank (06:01.038)
It's a very Gen Z thing to say right there.

Chris Johnson (06:02.926)
100%.

Reyna Martinez (06:05.886)
Just stating the facts for the Gen Zs who may eventually listen to this podcast. I didn't claim that. They put that on me. That's just very... just being forward. What? No, no. They just do what they want. We do what we want. Yeah. No, that's answer.

Chris Johnson (06:15.448)
Cause they wake up late. that what you're and they wake up a little later than the rest of us. Is that what's going on? I see. We do what we want. I got you.

Reyna Martinez (06:29.982)
And it's very true.

Jessie Cruickshank (06:31.96)
So, Reina, you've had experiences, hang on, let me cut that part. So Reina, you've had experiences as a human in this world who cares about discipleship. And I'm just wondering if you could share some of the things like, what has it been like for you to try to find somebody to disciple you? And why do you value discipleship? like, why have you even had the courage to go,

Reyna Martinez (06:34.942)
Yes.

Jessie Cruickshank (07:01.366)
and bug people and ask them if they're interested in discipling you.

Reyna Martinez (07:07.37)
yeah, I would say that, the earliest experience of discipleship that I received was probably in youth. that's a season of time, I guess, when I reference it, it's a season where the church really cares about making sure that you like being in the church. they're like, we love you, let's go have fun. Maybe there's snacks and kids your age and,

We're gonna talk about Jesus.

Yeah, I think I had some really intentional people when I was not in a very intentional home who cared about me in a way that it was like unrelenting and it was very weird when you don't experience that like in your home life to experience it outside of it like people who don't stop pursuing you like that was very strange and so I always credit those two people.

to be my spiritual parents. I would not follow Christ the way I do today had they not been so intentional with me when I was in a season of rejecting everybody. So following that, mean, that was seven years of my life when I finally decided to go to youth group. Yeah.

Chris Johnson (08:31.896)
So have a question. Hold on. Hold on. I have a question. I want to stop you. You said you were in a season of rejecting everybody. What's that mean? What do you mean?

Reyna Martinez (08:40.326)
yeah, so as a child, I was very angry and though you want to be in relationship and have friends and be cared for the lifestyle I lived, I was not a happy child. And so in order to protect myself, it was easier to try and reject people before they could reject me. And those leaders that I talked about,

Chris Johnson (08:44.867)
Mm.

Reyna Martinez (09:11.29)
in my life, they didn't care. were like, every week I showed up after like six months of not seeing anyone or refusing text messages. It was like, Reyna, what are you doing? How are you? Like, it's been so long, like no time passed. And it was, I love you the same time I loved you then as I do today. And it was like, it was evident. Absolutely. And there's a very...

Chris Johnson (09:30.04)
Did you feel like it was authentic? Did you feel like it was authentic? Yeah. Okay.

Reyna Martinez (09:37.022)
drastic difference between some of the other leaders I was around in that same youth group. There's another leader there who said they cared about me and we were very similar, but she just was never genuine. at the end of the day, she wasn't reaching out to me. She didn't care if I didn't reach out to her. And so...

He ended up being my youth pastor and the other leader was his wife, so that's why they were like my spiritual parents. It was like if I couldn't come to youth group, but I was reaching out to them, they were like, we're coming to get you. Like, don't worry, we're coming. We're gonna be there. They invited me to all their weird events that I didn't like going to because I'm not social. But they were like, you're coming, we're picking you up. We're gonna be at your house in five minutes. And I didn't have a lot of that, like even

at school when I had friends, they wouldn't offer to come and pick me up or I didn't hang out with people outside of that. And so when I was going to youth group and experiencing people who really seemed to care, even when I was like, well, my mom's not gonna take me or my parents can't drop me off or they don't have time, my parents aren't home. It was never a, we'll just see you next time. was no, we're making a way to come and see you. And so that...

experience for me was very like crucial to I guess even feeling like people could love me despite how like ugly I felt on the inside. It was like...

Chris Johnson (11:14.446)
I hope every youth group leader is listening to this right now, like how important that impact is. we, my youth group guy, he'll go and pick up a bunch of kids that can't make it to church. And he touches base with them every week. And I think like the, and the reason I asked you why is it, did it feel authentic is because I feel like your generation are some of the best, excuse the language, decipherers in the, in the world. Like they know when we're just trying to,

Reyna Martinez (11:40.99)
Absolutely.

Chris Johnson (11:44.418)
when we're being authentic, like that's, that's the thing I'll applaud your generation on is that you cut through it right away. And you can tell if somebody is being authentic or if they're just not. so that's, that's really cool.

Jessie Cruickshank (11:58.848)
So Reina, share a little bit of like what happened then when you're not in quote unquote youth group anymore and you become that transition into adulthood and now you're, yeah, in your early 20s and stuff, like what is then the discipleship dynamic? What did you experience?

Reyna Martinez (12:04.592)
Yeah, my connection's not great. Sorry guys.

Chris Johnson (12:09.966)
Mm-hmm.

Reyna Martinez (12:21.886)
Can you re-ask your question because my internet's cutting out?

Jessie Cruickshank (12:26.158)
Sure. So maybe share with us then how things changed and going back to your early 20s and now you're not in youth group anymore but you're a young adult. How was the discipleship experience different for you at that season of life?

Reyna Martinez (12:49.38)
Yeah, so immediately following high school, just a place I was in, I asked God to open the door for something else. I didn't have a plan and he provided an internship at my church. It was like a emerging leadership network, discipleship thing, whatever. And it was really great.

It was a space where it had to be intentional. So the leadership was intentional. The group I was with, we had to be intentional. It was honestly a little forced. It's fine. I'm antisocial. Sometimes you need that.

It was weird. was like my youth pastor couldn't really reach out to me anymore because I wasn't a youth kid. I mean, I still had relationship with them. It just looked different. And I was in this internship and like I had one automatic leader in my life at the time. The program I was in was kind of weird. She didn't necessarily let us have any kind of mentors outside of that.

So I went from a youth group space to this really secluded internship space. I left that and like had no idea how to stay connected. When I left that program, it was not on the best terms. And unfortunately, I was exiled a little bit from my church, just how the situation happened. There was some miscommunication on who was...

being intentional with me after I chose to leave. So I ended up not having anyone reach out to me. And so I felt very isolated and it was a season of my life where I was like, God, did you not bring me there? Like, did you not build relationship with people in my life in this place? And how am I supposed to like be in relationship now that this is so like tainted?

Reyna Martinez (15:01.818)
is like how I felt. So yeah, for like a year and a half it was like 2019, early 2019 to...

Chris Johnson (15:02.209)
Mmm.

Reyna Martinez (15:14.46)
Yeah, like June of 2021, I wasn't in church. wasn't like, I was following Jesus, but it was like very surface level even for myself. And it was a weird season. It was like, I knew I wanted relationship. I was trying to make friends. I was trying to get connected. I lived in the state of Washington for a year. It was really like a weird time. I did another internship was like,

Had a great time at the start, then it was weird and the leadership was weird. And at the end of 2021, I was like, God, I need your advice. Like, I know I haven't really been following you, but I need something else. If this isn't working, I want more. I like need more than this. I need relationship. I need community consistency. Like I will do whatever it takes just.

let me have something else and I felt like I was supposed to come back to Denver and plug back into that same church that I left that hurt me and I was like, God, you're freaking psycho. What do you mean? And going back to a place that hurt me, like, what are you talking about? And to this day, like, I will explain it like my heart is at this church and I can't describe why. So I came back and it's been hard. don't...

I don't really know why it's so hard. Like I know I'm anti-social, but being in a place where I want discipleship and I want to learn and grow and develop, like I want to know more about what it means to be in relationship with Jesus and be someone who's learning about God. Like, what does that look like? And it doesn't have to look like one thing, but so I came back like, all right, I'm committed. I'm doing this. I'm here. I'm not running away when my feelings get hurt.

And I started to ask a few people in certain like conversationships, conversationships, conversations with people in leadership that I was around.

Chris Johnson (17:15.982)
you

Jessie Cruickshank (17:17.102)
you

Reyna Martinez (17:24.638)
It was like, Rina, you're going through this really great season. Do you have someone who's mentoring you? And I was like, no. I don't. I imagine that God will bring it when it's to happen. I don't feel called to ask anyone specifically.

Jessie Cruickshank (17:45.688)
So you're praying for it, but that's kind of all the energy to it. You're like praying and asking God, I wanna get mentored, but I don't know who to talk to about it.

Reyna Martinez (17:47.502)
Yeah, nothing's coming.

Chris Johnson (17:58.318)
The other thing I want to add to that is that you're describing something that happens to so many young people. Like they have this powerful youth group, right? And they they're part of it and they have people picking them up. They have people feeding into them and then loving them. And then they graduate and they don't have a tie back to like the bigger church so much. That's just the youth group. And then they feel kind of lost. Like what the heck do I do right now? I had I'm too old to go back to the youth group.

Reyna Martinez (17:58.863)
Yeah.

Jacob (17:59.265)
you

Chris Johnson (18:27.616)
I don't feel like I'm part of the main church. Like I'm kind of lost. so like exactly. Right, right. You're not like you're not the 30 somethings like there is this kind of wilderness period for so many kids that like go to college or graduate college. They come back and they're like, where do I belong?

Reyna Martinez (18:32.573)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Cruickshank (18:32.834)
Right? You're not part of Marrieds or Kids or, you know, you don't have kids, so you're not in that group.

Reyna Martinez (18:50.494)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Cruickshank (18:51.822)
So Reyna, what happened when you started to like ask people to disciple you?

Reyna Martinez (18:59.186)
Yeah, so following those conversations, was like, okay, I guess I'll start trying to ask people. Like, I don't want to ask any random Joe. Like, I need someone who knows me or is willing to get to know me. I'm still very fresh off the, fresh off the, like, rejection space.

Chris Johnson (19:09.25)
Yeah. Good idea. Hey, Craig's list ad for somebody to mentor you. Yeah, no, that's bad. That's bad. Yeah.

Reyna Martinez (19:21.822)
Yeah, I can be a little bit of a tough personality. I can recognize that in myself. And so I was very, like, I want to make sure that this person, like, I can tell that this person is genuine, even if they're like, we don't have relationship, like, God, you're gonna direct me. I talked to a few different people. I started with my church. And I guess I didn't necessarily phrase it in like, will you be my mentor? was...

trying to like feel out if they would even want to have relationship with me. Like I'm in this church, I'm here, I wanna lead, I'm doing this different ministry and that different ministry. And it was like, like you, like if that's what you want, like what is discipleship for you? So your question, Chris, you were like, when someone just recently asked you, you were like, well, what does that even look like? It's like, I don't know what that looks like.

I have no idea. That's part of the learning process is learning what discipleship looks like. Because they don't teach you that in school or in youth group. They're just like, come hang out, have fun. And you're like, OK, cool. What's after that? And yeah, so I started with people in my church. They were like, well, whatever you want. And I was like, I don't know what I want.

Okay, and so then I kept praying and I talked to a few people outside of my church. It was like, you should probably seek people inside your church. Like the people I talked to were also very busy. And I was like, tried like nobody offered nobody seems like they want to do it. It's more like a every conversation I had was like, well, if you want mentorship for me, that's fine. But

like, you sure that's what you want? Was how I left every conversation. It was like, I'll do it if that's what you want, but is that what you want? Am I the person you want discipleship from? Like, do you want to be mentored by me? It was like, if I'm asking, then yes. Like if I, I mean, maybe I didn't say it directly, but if I'm talking about it with you, then I trust you enough to have conversation about discipleship with me.

Reyna Martinez (21:43.602)
I'm like not being like, if somebody would disciple me, that'd be so great. It was like, I really feel this need to learn and grow and develop. I've hit as far as I can by myself and I just want to learn. And it just didn't seem like anybody was interested in partnering with me in doing that. And so I was like, I don't.

Chris Johnson (22:04.204)
I, but that's interesting. And I'm Jesse, I'm sure that you've had people come to you and say, will you mentor me? And I've had it happen now in the last rain. raised her hand. I've had it happen now in the last three years. And I think sometimes as a leader, sometimes I get imposter syndrome. like, I was mentored by Jacob's dad and he just told me to like, kind of follow him. And I just followed him. I watched what he did.

Reyna Martinez (22:19.71)
you

Chris Johnson (22:31.526)
we went and got hot dogs at the checkers across the street. would have conversations and I don't know, like sometimes as a leader, I, I get intimidated by the process. Like, I going to, and it's not that I don't want to do it. It's like, I wonder if I would do a good job at actually doing it. And I get insecure like in my core. I don't know, Jesse, you can speak more on that. Maybe.

Reyna Martinez (22:42.366)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Cruickshank (22:56.312)
Yeah, I think that a lot of people, you know, knowing some of the people that that Raina actually went and talked to, that is that insecurity is very common, which is why we have this podcast, right, which is why we talk about these issues to help people feel less insecure when someone comes to them and says, hey, can you help me grow where I can't get to by myself? And

Chris Johnson (23:23.192)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Cruickshank (23:24.524)
You know, the insecurity can come from a lot of things, whether they don't think they have anything to give. They don't know if they have time. You know, a lot of people are busy and so they don't know what the commitment looks like. And it's just, it's really interesting the way that we would think about the commitments in our life. Like if somebody says, hey, I am interested in what you would have to teach me about God. Like that's...

I'm I'm Reyna speaks on behalf of Gen Z. I'm gonna speak on behalf of Reyna right now. Like that's a privilege and an honor. Like you should feel humbled by that and say, what can you do to like figure out how to have time in your life, right? So what can you do to have time in your life? How can you, even if it's like once a month, cause you know, that may be a really good life giving rhythm. And for

Chris Johnson (24:09.294)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Cruickshank (24:20.046)
for Reyna when Reyna had a conversation with me, we talked about it like, I carved out time in my life. And then I decided to start paying Reyna to be in that part of my life. she helps me, you know, as a part time assistant. But yeah, that journey alongside let's together. I'm not really a formal discipleship person with a curriculum.

other people might be and that's their personality type and then that's great and that's what they should do. That's not really me. So I'm like, you know, Jacob's dad and was come hang out and I will tell you how I'm processing my life. We'll process your life. We'll see what God wants to teach us both through that. And it's the good, the bad, the ugly. Reina sees me on the good days and the ugly days.

Chris Johnson (24:47.212)
Yeah.

Jessie Cruickshank (25:16.974)
But I think part of the insecurity is people, I don't know what kind of expectation they have for themselves that causes them to say no to that.

Chris Johnson (25:23.969)
Right.

Well, I just, I just had it happen yesterday. I had a guy, a young kid walk into my office. He's like, I think I want to be a pastor. Can I be your intern? I'm like, I don't know what that looks like. Honestly. I can't really afford to pay you anything. He's like, that's fine. I'm like, I thought you would say no after that. okay. yeah, let's figure something out, you know? And so like, how did it start with you two? what did the process look like in the beginning when you guys were meeting?

Reyna Martinez (25:58.75)
Well, it is a little different than Jessie described. When I first came to her, no, I really didn't want to fact check, but yeah, I had initially come to her after talking to several different people. And at the time, she actually didn't have time for me. I can be a pretty much heavy emotional wreck.

Jacob (26:00.088)
you

Chris Johnson (26:04.526)
I anticipated that.

Jessie Cruickshank (26:05.614)
Fact check, she's gonna fact check my fake news here. Go.

Reyna Martinez (26:27.226)
often and at the time I was very much so. But what I appreciated about my interaction with Jessie was even though she couldn't mentor me, she helped me find resources to help me in the season I was in, which is not what I had experienced with anybody else. It was just like, well, you should talk to somebody at your church or, you should talk to this leader at your church or you should talk to this person. It was like I already talked to them. I had reached out to them and they.

Though they were willing, they didn't seem eager. They didn't seem like they also wanted to benefit from that. after that initial interaction and setting me up with some other resources, she came to me a year later. It was really funny. She asked me to help her with her taxes.

Jessie Cruickshank (27:12.11)
That's cause God, Reina, the backstory is God didn't go. Like he was bugging me and he's like, make space, make space, figure out how to make space. So keep going, keep going.

Reyna Martinez (27:22.814)
Let's go.

Reyna Martinez (27:27.618)
yeah, so like I didn't know that and you know, God just kept telling me to be present and she reached out to me and asked me if I could help her with her taxes and for nobody here who knows me obviously. I am the biggest type A nerd who loves anything admin space. That's just who I am as a person. It feeds my soul.

Chris Johnson (27:37.87)
You

Reyna Martinez (27:50.162)
So was like, yes, absolutely. I will come and do this spreadsheet that seems super tedious and absolutely insane to do. I will happily do it. And it took me probably like two hours. And then I went home. She like showed it to her husband, Shout out to Bob. And he was like, they were both like very impressed with my work. Sorry, I won't say shocked, because I know I'm pretty cool.

she came back to me probably like a month or two later and asked me if I'd be interested in working with her. cause she needed an admin partially, yes. But now I just get paid for it. and one, it wasn't even that, like I had no expectation. It was, it was,

Chris Johnson (28:20.352)
You

Chris Johnson (28:30.638)
But you always have to do our taxes every year. I'm just kidding.

I'll mentor you if you my taxes.

Reyna Martinez (28:49.64)
Can you help me in this season of Where I Need Help? And I was like, you know what, I would love that. I knew going in that this was a loophole into her mentoring me, because I'd be spending time with her. And I guess that's the thing for me. If you're in relationship with somebody, you're mentoring each other. I had more mentorship in my friendships with my peers than I was having mentorship in my life from leaders.

Even though that's what I felt like I needed and what I wanted, it just seemed like it was easier to just have those hard conversations with my friends than it was to try and have those hard conversations with leaders who didn't necessarily seem like they had the time or felt comfortable giving me their time. And I was like, loophole, Jessie now has to mentor me. She's not getting a choice.

Chris Johnson (29:45.326)
Yeah.

Jessie Cruickshank (29:47.155)
We call that the Jedi Ninja discipleship technique.

Reyna Martinez (29:49.598)
And I really had been praying about it. was like, God, you're going to figure it out. I don't have to chase it down. I don't have the energy to chase it down. Like these people will either want to do it and ask me or they won't. And Jesse was the first person to reach out to me. And then about three months later, I was helping our denomination with a young adults conference.

And one of the leaders I was working with there, she also, I had expressed the same thing. Like I am having a hard time. Everyone keeps saying I need a mentor, but nobody's offering to mentor me. And every time I ask, everyone seems weird. Like they don't wanna, but they also are open. And it's like, well, I don't wanna do it if you don't wanna do it. Like don't waste my time. Like I have to go find somebody who cares. I don't need to waste time with you if you don't care. And so she had also asked me and,

I just came to this realization that it didn't have to be so formal. And I'd read Jesse's book and every page I was like, this is exactly how I feel. Why does nobody know this? Like, this is so simple. It's not, will you be God in my life? Will you help me meet God for the first time? Like, just meet God in a way that I'd not experienced before. You have experience in this that I don't. I'm 20, at the time I was 22, it's like I'm 22, 23, and.

All I have is bad experiences in life and leadership and I'm asking for help, which like I think is even beyond like I've heard a lot from young adults in my age range who went into these discipleship programs. And it's this like everyone's getting church hurt and every one of their mothers sad and sassy about it. And

We still show up, we still want it. We're a little sensitive because the people we trusted to lead us are the same people who either hurt us or neglected us or left us when we left the program. And now it's like, have to trust that you're not gonna abandon me again when it's not convenient for you to be in my life anymore.

Reyna Martinez (32:05.15)
And that's scary. Like that's scary for me. Like I have to trust that Jesse won't be like, sorry, Raina, I found some cool, great new assistant and we're done now. Like my world would shatter like a year ago. Now I'd probably just be like, well, it's been good. But that's the like, that's the like time that we've built is like knowing who Jesse is. She's not going to abandon me if I move on or she needs to find somebody else. Like if our partnership ends, like our relationship is still there. But

Two years ago, I'd been like, well, I'm probably never gonna see Jessie again. Saturday.

If I'm showing up, I'm willing. I'm not just wasting my time being somewhere. I don't have the courtesy to do that. My own personal wellbeing needs people who are genuine in my life. And if I'm not receiving that, I'm not wasting my time anymore, like more now. But that is how I've always walked with it is like, don't waste my time, because I don't want to waste your time. Clearly there's somebody in your life who you would rather mentor.

is how I felt. was a little, I'm a lot angsty at the time, I was even worse. And it's like, you clearly have somebody you would rather mentor, don't waste your time on me, I'll go find somebody who wants to, and God will bring that person, I don't have to fight for it.

Chris Johnson (33:20.27)
Thank

Jessie Cruickshank (33:31.064)
Sabrina, what I love about what you're illustrating is the persistence, the God-driven persistence, because not everybody has that. mean, there's a lot of people out there who know the right thing and don't do it, or they know the right thing and as soon as it gets a little difficult, there's some obstacles. Like they don't. But what you're describing is,

Chris Johnson (33:36.416)
it.

Reyna Martinez (33:39.678)
Mm.

Jessie Cruickshank (34:00.768)
a type of resiliency that you don't always see around discipleship and wanting to grow, wanting to be mentored and your trust in the Lord to provide that. So, you I love your heart about this topic. I love your heart about your willingness to keep grinding, to follow God and to grow in however He wants to grow you and the way that you actually do look to Him to

be that source and that supply. You understand that a person is just a human. so there's, you know, and I, because you speak for all Gen Z, like I would think that many Gen Zers actually, I mean, a lot of the ones that I've talked to do have that same perspective. It's not a God complex of I'm going to follow this mentor and they are my everything and they're my pseudo parent or they're my,

Chris Johnson (34:35.246)
Thank

Jessie Cruickshank (34:57.518)
It's not a pedestal. It's just a relationship. And there's a healthy perspective about what's realistic. I think you all have a lot of realism. There's no idealism. That's why you're so angsty. You need a little more optimism and idealism. You might benefit from that. Reality sucks. So, you know, it's okay to ignore it every now and then, just a little bit. Reality bites, as they say.

But, Chris, as you're hearing Reyna, what do you want? I'm curious from both of you, because you guys are both coming at this from slightly different perspectives. Chris, what would you want to remember from what Reyna is saying? And Reyna, what would you want people to take who may have been approached by someone?

Chris Johnson (35:26.83)
HO!

Jessie Cruickshank (35:52.594)
and they got all inksy and insecure in the conversation. They said no, or got weird about it. And, you know, what would you want them to know? So Chris, what are you taking away? Reyna, what would you want people to know?

Reyna Martinez (35:57.086)
happens.

Chris Johnson (36:02.734)
Yeah.

What I'm, what I'm hearing from Raina is just complete authenticity. And I think sometimes the intimidating factor when you become the mentor and not the mentee is that you don't feel equipped and you think you have to have all the answers. And what I think Raina is saying is, is that she's looking for authenticity. She's looking for time and she's looking for someone that genuinely cares about her spiritual wellbeing. And to me.

That's way less intimidating. and I can, I can do that. You know, I can, I can carve out a few hours a week for somebody that's earnestly seeking the Lord and not wanting me to be their spiritual father or not wanting me to be the person with all the answers. And I think in the past, sometimes that's what I was intimidated by. Like, and so it's, it's refreshing to hear Reina's take on it. And again, it's like,

really refreshing to hear just how incredibly authentic she is. And that's what I've got from so many of Reyna's generation. And I don't know if there was a vote to make Reyna in charge of this generation, but really, really good. Really good. And maybe that's why your name is Queen. I don't know.

Chris Johnson (37:26.638)
I don't know.

Reyna Martinez (37:27.96)
yeah, no, I would say that Encompass is really, my heart behind discipleship. Like, it doesn't have to be all like pretty and fancy. Like, I'm not that, I am a hot mess. Honestly, I'm going to get off this call and probably cry. Like, that's just the reality of the life I live in my generation is so exposed to.

the reality of the darkness that is the world. Like, our phones give us direct access to how horrible the world is out there. And how do you have hope and how do you have...

in the midst of that. I don't know. I mean, I've learned how to do that, but how do you have support in that? I don't know. For a long time, I just had to support myself, and it was like, I don't even know how to talk to people about the darkness that's in me, let alone the darkness that's outside of this. How do I do that? How do I feel safe enough with somebody to talk about the hardest parts of myself? So not just for like,

getting advice, so that I can realize those. And you have to be in a safe place to experience those moments where you can have that. And if you aren't even willing to see if relationship with me, not even just as a mentor, but as a person in my life, like a potential spiritual aunt, mother, father, uncle, brother, cousin, sister, like we, it's not that deep.

you're teaching me how to seek God in these moments, not to seek you, like, it'll start out that way. But like the whole point of discipleship, the whole point of Jesus seeking out the disciples was to teach them how to teach others to follow God first. Like, and that was, that was a whole thing. My whole tangent in the midst of my inks was like, God's or Jesus saw

Chris Johnson (39:33.517)
Yeah.

Reyna Martinez (39:42.194)
the disciples and he asked them, he didn't say you're coming with me, he said hey let's go have a good time and they were like you know what that sounds pretty cool relationship that sounds pretty cool I'm down for that and it's never easy like being especially like thinking about having to disciple the next generation I'm a little scared but

Chris Johnson (39:43.256)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Johnson (39:48.526)
Follow me. Right? Yeah.

Chris Johnson (39:57.304)
Yeah.

Reyna Martinez (40:12.274)
But they needed just as much as I did. And how do I set even just my peers up for success in seeking discipleship? And how do I talk to the next generation and be like, hey, if they're here and they're asking, they want it. And sure, maybe they'll run away, but they'll realize that that was probably the most authentic interaction they could have had and they'll desire it more. That's, think, that's.

Jessie Cruickshank (40:35.95)
So good.

Chris Johnson (40:36.75)
That's awesome. Yeah.

Reyna Martinez (40:39.176)
What I think I took away most from youth group is I could not live life with surface level interactions anymore. I honestly never could. I was a very self-aware child. All the fluff of the awkwardness, the sadness, all of it, it was like, how do I get out of this? What can I learn to develop and grow? And my youth pastor and his wife were...

that for a season and then the director of my internship. now like Jessie's part of that in my life. My friends are part of that in my life. And it's, I'm willing, I'm here. And I think that's true to my whole generation. We're willing. You just have to be honest and you know, even just a little ugly in your honesty. We're gonna know. You said like we're BS detectors. We are. The moment I can tell that you're not super genuine.

And it's not even a like, I don't care. It's now I'm insecure because you don't want me. I'm sorry. Like, let me go right now. I'll I'm bye. Bye. Like, I'm sorry I interrupted your day. And it's like, if I'm here, I'm willing. I'm not wasting my time, especially as a Gen Z who could go spend four hours getting my dopamine hit on TikTok. I don't need to seek you out if I'm here and I'm asking that that's

Chris Johnson (42:01.44)
you

Reyna Martinez (42:08.54)
You should take note as leaders.

Chris Johnson (42:11.306)
I hope they did. Reina Martinez, you are an absolute gem. Your humility, your passion for Jesus, your sincerity. think old people like me have a lot to learn from people like you, and I just appreciate you. And God bless you and your journey. Thank you so much for joining us today on the Ordinary Disciple podcast. Jesse, I have a quick question. If people want to learn more, this is one of the early episodes, I think.

Where do they go? Where do they find out more about ordinary discipleship?

Jessie Cruickshank (42:45.804)
Yeah, you can always go to whoology.co. That's W-H-O-O-L-O-G-Y.co. We've got a Bible study. We've got team training, webinars, things like that. So you can check out whatever we're currently offering there at whoology.co.

Chris Johnson (43:05.898)
Awesome. Thank you again, Raina, Jacob. Thank you. You're very quiet this episode, but we saw you and Jesse, as always, you're the best and we'll join you. Join us next time for another episode of Ordinary Discipleship Podcast. Thanks guys.