Jessie Cruickshank: Welcome to
the ordinary discipleship

Podcast. I'm Jesse Cruikshank,
and we love to talk about how

people are responding to the
call of God on their life. If

you are unsure if God is asking
you to do something, then this

is the episode for you. So I
have Jacqueline and obey

Arellano, and we are going to
talk today about their life as

ministers in Mexico, and just
the things that God is doing in

Mexico, in the in in the
ministry that they're working

with. So they have experience
all over the world. They're

going to share a little bit
about that as well. Jacqueline,

Ove so happy to have you on
today. Thank you for being with

Jacqueline Arellano: us. Thank
you very much for having us.

Thank you so much for having us.
Well, ladies, first always. My

name is Jacqueline Arellano, and
I serve with exponential

Espanol. We have been serving
with exponential USA since about

2010 ish 11, and so we now have
founded. OB has founded

exponential Espanol in 2020.
Yeah,

Jessie Cruickshank: it's a great
year to found something, isn't

it? Let me start a new ministry.
It's funny. Yeah, it was, it

Obe Arellano: was a great year.
It was actually because things

were just low. It was just a
good year to focus on getting

it, getting it off the ground.
Yeah. OB, you know, leading

exponential spaniel together,
lead exponential Spaniel, and

it's been great the last five
years being on this adventure

helping churches, helping
Hispanic or Spanish speaking

churches, be able to to go
beyond addition into

reproduction and multiplication
of churches. So that's the area

of ministry that we're

Jessie Cruickshank: in, yeah. So
for those of the audience that

don't know what exponential is,
just say a little bit more about

the becoming five, and just give
them a little idea of what the

church planting or the church
multiplication paradigm is. So

Unknown: yeah. So the
exponentials mission is to see

that multiplication of churches
becomes like the measure of

success, so that more churches
can become church planting

churches, and be able to reach
more people. There's five

levels. Exponential has done
research, and we've discovered

there's five levels of churches,
and I'll briefly go through

them, level one or level
churches that are in decline,

churches that are subtracting.
So I mean, just like you know,

the level shows that churches
are declining in in attendance,

in membership, in impact, in
their neighborhood or community

or city. Level two is a church
that is plateaued pretty much.

It's stuck. It's not growing.
It's not in decline, either.

Level three are the church of
addition, those are churches

that are growing, growing in
numbers and impact. Level four

is a church that is reproducing,
churches that are starting to

reproduce who they are, what
they do, reproducing churches in

other parts of their city or
state or country, wherever,

whatever whatever vision they
have. And the level five

churches are the church of
multiplication. Churches that

are multiplying. Level five
churches are churches that are

reproducing. So level four but
are reproducing to the the

fourth generation of church
plants and beyond. That's,

that's what makes them a
multiplying church, church that

are leaving a legacy of
multiplication. There's a

percentage so 80% of the
churches, 80% of the churches

are level one or level two, so
in decline or plateaued. 13% are

adding or growing. 7% are
reproducing and multiplying. So

level four, level five. So our
mission is to see that 16% of

churches become level four,
level five, reproducing or

multiplying churches. So what we
do is we offer resources,

through books, through gathering
experiences, spaces where

leaders can be poured into
sharing resources to help them

leaders become multiplying
leaders that help their churches

become multiplying churches.

Jessie Cruickshank: I love it.
And so you guys are doing that

work now in Mexico,

Unknown: right? So, um, yes,
yes. Ish. Tell

Jessie Cruickshank: us about
that. Tell us about how there's

a journey we're on. Yes.

Unknown: So we have been serving
the Spanish speaking church for

the past four years. That's
fully been our concentration is

the Spanish speaking five years
now in the United States. And so

in the end of last year, we made
the move to Mexico City, so we

can strategically be positioned
in Latin America to expand now

to Latin America. So everything
that we have learned through

exponential USA, and then also
through the work that we've been

doing through exponential
Espanol, now we're trying to see

how we expand into Latin
America. And so that's where

we're at right now. We are
starting off the year trying to

meet and. Be in spaces where we
get to meet more Latin American

leaders that are passionate
about multiplication as well. So

that way we can continue growing
and bringing the resources that

we have accumulated for the few
years, the past few years, to

Latin America. Yeah. So here we
are in Mexico City, in

Mexico City, like you mentioned,
strategic, because it is a hub

that is connected to every
country in Central and South

America, including Mexico that's
in North America. But we can, we

can go to any major city of any
country in Latin America. And

also we can, because we're still
serving in the US. Exponential

Spaniel is still doing work in
the US for the Hispanic churches

in the USA. I'm

Jessie Cruickshank: glad you
didn't abandon us, not at all,

not just expanded. You expanded

Unknown: your tent. That's what
that's all we're doing. Expanded

our tent. Yeah, we're expanding.
We're still committed to the

Hispanic church in the US.
That's not changing. So from

Mexico City, strategically, we
can go to anywhere in Latin

America, in South America and
Central America, but also we can

go to any major city, and we're
as connected, sorry, in the US,

we're as connected as if we were
living in in the US. Still. So,

so it's strategic. Why also
Mexico City?

Jessie Cruickshank: No, no, that
totally makes sense. So my

question that, like the first
one that comes up is, what do

you find that's translating
well, because it feels like,

wow, that is a universal
struggle or paradigm or

learning, regardless of what
country you're in or what people

group you're working with, and
then what are you finding that

seems a bit more contextualized?
You're like, wow, okay, that's

the thing that they're dealing
with the Hispanic churches or

Spanish speaking churches are
dealing with in nor in, you

know, the United States, but it
doesn't really transfer that

well to, you know, some of the
the more rural parts of Central

and South America. Or is it the
cities that are the same? Is the

culture that's the same? Like,
like, how are you? How are you

discerning what translates and
what needs contextualization and

maybe even additional resources
or specialized resources.

Unknown: It's such a complex
question. I can go diff we can

go different directions. So
culturally, it is very different

than the even than the Hispanic
culture in the US. Even you were

saying earlier today that what's
the percentage of Latinos in the

US that are immigrants from
Latin America. Did you say? What

was

that so, out of the Hispanics,
or Latin Americans that are in

the United States, only 33% are
non US citizens

from the 65 million people
Latinos that are in the US, 30%

of that are non US citizen, that
are essentially immigrants from

a Latin American country. So

Jessie Cruickshank: 70% are US
citizens.

Unknown: Yes, US citizen or
resident. They are with legal

documentation into the in the
United States. And they can be

already third, fourth generation
as well. So we've been in the

United States for a few years,

Jessie Cruickshank: for a few
years. I mean, I live in, I live

in the West, right? I mean, I
know that the border of Mexico

came up to Pueblo Colorado,
right? I mean, like, I'm aware

of our geographic history,
right?

Unknown: Yeah, kind of crossed
us a little. So the context for

those third, fourth and
generations in the immigrant

even in the United States, is
very different from immigrant

people that are coming to the
United States to the people that

have been born there through
generations, or were there

before even the border crossed.
This is very different to what

it is in Mexico and the rest of
Latin

America, and that's why I
mentioned understanding a little

bit of the his the Latino
context, and the subcultures

that are in the Hispanic context
in the US, is necessary to

understand, or even for me to
say, well, let me compare the

culture of Mexico, where we're
in right now, or cities in Latin

America, to the US, because it's
you can compare it. There's so

many subcultures, there's so
many generations of Latinos, and

only 30% 30 Yeah, 30% are
immigrants. So comparing it like

side by side, it's very
difficult, right? Because also

within that 30% or even the 70%
the the 65 million Hispanic

Latinos are in the US. There's
every country in Latin America

represented, right? So the
majority, yes, is Mexico, and

then there's a few others that
have high percentages. But even

that, it's difficult to compare
side by side. But as far as like

church culture goes, which is
the area that we're serving in,

it's also very different.
There's this weird dynamic that

I think I came to discover that
I'm I don't know if it's that,

it's been proved, but at least I
can observe this, and it boggles

my mind, and this, this will
help understand the culture

context, difference of churches
in Latin America and in the US.

So for instance. Churches, the
Hispanic church in the US, the

majority of Hispanic, Spanish
speaking churches, they actually

look up to their churches in
Latin America, their churches

where they came from, whether
it's their sending church, or

the church where they became
Christians or an influential

church in Latin America, because
they understand the language,

the context, all that stuff,
right? But they look up to them.

And then what's happening? The
dynamic is that the churches

that they're looking up to in
Latin America, they are actually

looking up at the church in the
US to be influenced by them.

Does that make sense?

Jessie Cruickshank: Oh, totally,
totally. It's like, who's your

spiritual hero?

Unknown: These ones are being
influenced by that. So in

essence, they could be looking
directly to their neighbors and

learn from them, but many are
not doing that. The majority are

not doing that. So that creates
a huge gap between the Hispanic

church in the US. Maybe you've
heard this before, the Hispanic

church in the US, and even a lot
of culture is about 20 years

behind the predominant culture
in the US, right? And that

because they're looking down, so
there's a delay. And then that

the church in Latin America,
it's about about 10 years behind

from the church in the US, so
then that creates a bigger gap.

So that just, I mean, I don't
know if I'm confusing and I'm

just going long on that, but
that that just a weird dynamic

that we're seeing within the
people that we're interacting

with here, but also that we've
been interacting with in the US

for years, for many years now.

Jessie Cruickshank: So, so then
what are you what are you

finding? Transfers? Where do you
find the growth edge is? And

what are you seeing? What the
You know? What are you seeing

that God is doing?

Unknown: So in what transfers,
I'll let you share on what we're

seeing God do. But in the things
that are transfers, well and

easy, are principle based
practices or teachings, right

things that are it's more a
principle rather than, Oh, let

me do it, because this is my
model of how we're doing it in

the US. So exponential. We've,
we've kind of, we have

simplified the the areas where
we think every church needs to

focus on and multiply in those
areas so that they can

experience multiplication in
churches. So we try to simplify

it by creating principle, you
know, based resources. So for

instance, multiplying
discipleship, discipleship, it's

a it's a huge area of
multiplication that we need to,

you know, address. And so that's
like making disciples. And make

disciples, creating a disciple,
making culture, not just a

discipleship. I feel like
discipleship. It entails more

about class, classes and that
type of study, yeah, spiritual

Jessie Cruickshank: disciplines
and learning, right? Yeah,

Unknown: disciple making
culture. It's life, doing life,

inviting others into our
journey. So we, we want to have,

we want to share that, that
level of principle of disciple

making. So when we talk about
disciple making, it's so simple

in its essence that it can be
applied in whatever context the

church is working that area. And
so then when we bring that those

teachings and learnings to
Mexico or Latin America, it's so

easy to be applied in its
context because we're just

removing all of the models, and
this church is doing that. The

church isn't that, but it's
like, it's a foundational aspect

of that that makes it easy to be
contextualized, right? So I

think as we simplify those,
those principles of

multiplication, at least in our
context, multiplying disciples,

multiplying leaders, mobilizing
the church for mission and then

simplifying that, those are
principle based teachings that

we share, that it makes it easy
to be received by any church in

any context in Latin America,
rather than like Well, let me

teach you how our church in the
US was doing it. So you can do

it even though it's disciple
making, but we want to teach a

model that that's what is not
necessarily transferable or

contextualized.

So we have two spaces, right?
The the Spanish speaking church

in the USA, and then, of course,
the Latin American church. And

what I see in both spaces
happening, of course, the United

States being the second largest
country of Spanish speakers in

the world. What we see is, what
we have seen been, been

observing and studying in the
past few years, is how God is

raising up the Hispanic church
in in the United States. How is

he doing that? I think we're
seeing a lot of decline in this,

in the church in the United
States. Unfortunately, sometimes

we we don't want to grasp that
or accept that, because of how

we were founded in the United
States as a is a is how we were

taught. We were founded as a
church looking for the freedom

to worship, right and so, like a
Christian church and so. But

what we saw in the last few
years is that. The Hispanic

Church, the Spanish speaking
church is is a church that is

continues to grow. We continue
to grow as as believers in

Christ, and so we, we are the
church it sounds so we're

amazing, but we, we are the
church that's kind of raising

the bar in Christianity for
United States. And so we we are

observing that, and we celebrate
that, because we know that God

is doing great things through
the Hispanic church. And of

course, the enemy will rise up
against the Hispanics of our

country, because we are the
church that is rising up to be

to be able to do the works that
we're doing as Christians. We

hear so many times where we when
we go, when we went to Spain a

few years ago, and we heard that
so many missionaries were coming

from the Hispanic church to
Spain to evangelize Spain now

and help that church be
established, that that made that

was a confirmation that the
Hispanic church is the church

that's rising up to spread the
gospel in the United States into

other places, and so that's one
of the things that we observed

as Spanish speaking church. Now,
in the past few months, we're

also seeing some changes in how
the Hispanic church should

prepare in our countries. You
know, like the Spanish speaking

church in Latin America, is
going to need to prepare for

some of the changes that are
happening in the United States,

to receive all of the people
that are coming. And so that's a

huge opportunity for us in
Mexico and beyond to prepare our

churches to receive all the
maybe undocumented and even

documented people that decide or
are deported to their countries

of origin. It's a great
opportunity for the church, and

I think we need to be paying
attention to what's going on in

the United States, because it
will affect us in in the future

as an as the church needs to
prepare for all of the all of

the people that will be coming
home to their native countries.

And how can we prepare for that?
I think there's opportunities

for evangelism, because there's
going to be some that will be

deported because of their
records or whatever has happened

in their past. But there's also
opportunities for many people

that are willing to make a
change in their address, to come

and be the maybe the people that
we use for opportunities for job

employment and help people that
are already here rise and be

better equipped for the future.

Jessie Cruickshank: Yeah, I
mean, the last five years,

right, post COVID, the most of
the growth in Christianity in

North America was churches
planted by the Hispanic Church

and the immigrant church, right?
It was the most vibrant part of

the body of Christ in North
America. And then in, you know,

2025 we're seeing those churches
not feeling safe enough to

gather, right? So, so there. So
our friends at World Relief just

sharing that of those of people
getting deported, 80% are

Christian. You. You spoke so
delicately, Jack, I'm gonna let

your words stand because I I
would talk about it a slightly

different way, maybe with a
little more higher

Unknown: Well, some people will
accept the non delicate version

from you more than from me. So
we've learned our lesson through

the years that the way I look
sometimes portrays things very

differently than what we're all
trying to say. But I have to

speak delicately well. I

Jessie Cruickshank: just want to
acknowledge that. And I don't,

you know, I want to thank you
for that when and for someone,

somebody else carries water
again, for problems, for pain, I

just always want to acknowledge
that it sounds like you're

preparing churches across Latin
America to accept refugees from

the United States. You know
people that they have never you

know countries that they've
never been in, countries that

they haven't been raised in,
even if that's what other you

know at some point documentation
you know demonstrates as a

country of origin. It it sounds
like you are seeing that as an

opportunity for people with no
culture and no home to to

create, home to create. I mean,
if anything just teaches us what

potentially Kingdom looks like,
apart from what a social, you

know, national culture could
look like, that's like a huge

thing you you guys, in fact, the
only thing that you guys have is

a single language, right? It
sounds like so many different

cultures, so many different Yes,
it's, you know, the unifying

factor is Spanish. And even
then, I've, I've, I've been

enough, most of South America in
some of. Of the Caribbean, and

like, Spanish is not the same.
No, it is not. I can. I can

understand in some nations and
in some nations, I can't. How

are you processing that
assignment? How are you

processing that? Are you
building a team right now? How

can they pray for you? Yeah,
that's great.

Unknown: I mean, can I I'll add
something that's a great

question, and I think we are,
we're, we're we're in the in the

process of listening to that,
and how better prepared for

that, because we're in the
beginning, in the beginning

phase of all the things that's
happening. It's been have it's

happened before. We're not
saying it's new, but the way

it's happening right now, it's
aggressive, and we're listening,

we're praying. And yes, we want
to build a team. We want to have

support, not just through
prayer, for us to be able to

help. And we, two people in
Mexico City, we're not, will not

be able to do that, but the
position that we have leading

exponential Espanol, being able
to equip churches to know how to

receive people that maybe don't
even know the language in

Spanish, right? They only know
English. How To Best equip

churches here to welcome people
that are going to be not even

coming back. Some yes men, the
majority, but others coming

back, coming to a country
they've never been in, which is,

it boggles my mind that that's
happening right now. So if I can

say prayer for that type of
support to help us equip

churches better to receive
people and create safe spaces

where they can journey and
disciple them even during their

journey. Support for prayer, for
support, financial support for

us to continue doing the
trainings and gathering pastors

and leaders to be able to equip
them, not just for this, but the

other work that we're doing.
Those are two, two ways that

people can be praying for us.
But if I can add it's really

important to understand the
level of spiritual warfare that

it's happening with all of this,
because going back to what Jack

says, We're not only the second
largest if we were to count only

the Spanish speakers or the
Latinos in the US, we would be

the second largest country,
right? There's a whole other

factors that we can say that if
we if we can count only the

Hispanic financials or economic
economy, we would be the fifth

largest country, the fifth
largest economy in the in the

world. There's already some
research that that. It's telling

us that in 25 years, in 30
years, the Latinos are going to

be the largest minority, sorry,
the largest geographic the group

of people in the US. I mean, if
you think about that, the

Latinos will be the largest
group of people. Yeah, it'll be

the majority. It will be the
majority. And obviously one,

there are some people that don't
like that, and they want to stop

that from happening. Hence, what
is going on right now. Also you

mentioned that Christianity in
the US has been in decline for

the last 25 years. A huge factor
that is starting to turn that

the state of Christianity in the
US is that Latino churches, the

Latino people you mentioned over
the last five years, Latinos,

are the ones who have been
planting more vibrant churches,

right? So the enemy, our enemy,
our spiritual enemy, does not

like that. It wants to see a
country in declining

Christianity. So there's going
to be plans that will want to

halt that as you know as early
as possible, to not see that

happening. So that level of
what's going on behind just what

we see, it's good for us to be
aware of knowing that there's a

greater fight that we're that
we're in the midst of, beyond

just the things that we're
seeing,

just the political things we
have been talking about this for

a while, but I think the
Hispanic church has been trying

to bring this to the attention
of our English speaking only

Americans that hey, you guys
need to be starting something in

Spanish. Why isn't this in
Spanish? Why aren't we doing

church in Spanish? Why does this
resource not exist in Spanish.

And so I think this is, this is
what God has been trying to tell

the church all these years. It's
happening. You know, it's

happening, that what he, what he
was warning us, is that they are

going to try to shut that voice
down. They are going to try to

shut that people, that people
group down. And so I think, I

think it's an important time in
our as Christians to pay

attention to what is happening
in our country, the United

States, to help them understand
that they need to rise up to

this location, that they need to
fight back for this you know

that they need to not. Shut that
voice down. Because what if you

shut the Spanish speaking church
down the voice? It's the Lord's

work that is getting shut down.
It's not our work. It's not our

economy or our goodness, or
whatever you wanted to say. It's

literally the church being shut
down. Two I think the way that

we're trying to prepare churches
here is just, I really believe

it's a great it was crazy when
2024 ended, and 2025 stars, and

we see the shift happening, and
we are actually in Mexico City

at such a time as this, right?
That we are a couple of Mexican

or Latin American American kids
from the US that know both

languages, that both cultures
are within us. We are just as

Chicagoan as just as we are, you
know, Mexican or Guatemalan, in

my case, for God to bring
people, and we keep seeing more

people like us that were raised
in the United States with our

Hispanic roots and language
never lost that are in in the

city, and so we keep meeting
different people from different

places of the United States that
have migrated here for whatever,

whatever their reason is,
whether it's for business,

whether it's political, whether
it's for our work as ministers,

but I think God has
strategically placed people like

us here to help us receive those
people that will be brought to

the United to Latin America from
the United States. And so I

think that was a great eye
opener for us, when we start

seeing how things are changing
and happening back home, and how

we're here for this season. And
every pastor that I talk to is,

hey, you need to prepare.
There's going to be people from

the United States coming that
are going to need a church as

well, and some of these people
don't know Spanish. So how do we

prepare for

Jessie Cruickshank: that? It
sounds like the kindness of God

in the midst of the craziness of
humanity, what is keeping your

faith up? What is keeping your I
don't know, joy, maybe even if

you get to experience some of
that. But like, what is

encouraging you and what is what
is keeping your head lifted?

Because whenever we experience
injustice, whenever a whole

people group is dehumanized,
like we all feel that, right,

there's, there's a secondary
trauma to that. And I just worry

about, you know, yeah, it may
not be happening to you, but

it's but it's happening in your
community, in Chicago or or, you

know, when you're when a people
group is vilified or dehumanized

that affects everybody. So how
are you maintaining

encouragement and in in the Lord
and or even not in the Lord?

Maybe it's just you go on a walk
and like, you know nature is

beautiful or something like
that. It doesn't have to be

allowed to be hyper spiritual,
but, but I think is, as in the

United States, the the pain that
some communities are feeling is

extremely profound, and in some
communities it hasn't reached it

there yet, right? So, so it's
not, not everyone in the United

States right now is experiencing
the moment the same, but it will

eventually get everywhere. And
so maybe, it's a prophetic word

that you know you have today,
that whenever somebody listens

to this, they're like, oh,
that's the thing I needed to to

hear, because I didn't feel the
pain in in April when we're

recording this. But you know
when I'm listening to it now you

know that that that wave has has
finally reached my house. How do

you guys stay out of
discouragement or remind

yourselves of the Lord and all
of this?

Unknown: Yeah, it is very
personal. It does affect our

families. You know it is
something that we do fear for

some family members, and we do
get afraid for them, we know

that there's life be beyond the
United States. And so we try to

encourage some of our family
that Jesus is still king. And no

matter where the no matter where
we're at and no matter who's on

platform or on offices, Jesus is
still king. We are still his,

and so we he will still provide
for us. And there is a world

outside of the United States,
and it is just as beautiful and

just as amazing and just as
plentiful in different areas.

And so I, I have a few very,
very close family members that I

have to remind, hey, everything
that we learned in the United

States, we could take it to
everywhere else. And these are

resources that we were given for
maybe a time like this. And so

it's okay if there's fear and
uncertainty, but there is, there

is a lord that still prepares us
and still takes care of us. And

I think for me to stay, uh. Um,
okay, I have to avoid many, many

outlets that just make me feel
unloved and uncared and unwanted

and visible and and vilified,
you know. And so the most

important outlet that I need to
be plugging into is my word and

my prayer life to remind me who
God says I am, and I am not

second classes then or a
minority anything. There's

nothing minor about me.
Everything's pretty major in me.

So I have to always kind of
remind me and others what the

Lord says, who we who he says we
are, and no matter who, who's

who can say all the things that
they say, it doesn't affect me,

because I know who I am in
Christ. And so that's probably

the message that I would want to
let others know, is, hey,

remember who he says you are,
and He is eternal. He's not just

for a term. He has no terms, and
he has no time limits. He is

eternal. And he says, I am this.
And so that's a great reminder

for me. So I do need this
reminder as well, but it's a

reminder that I also share with
others so good

I think also like for me, are
remembering that God uses every

season and he brings out
specific purpose and plans that

need to come to past, and it
requires being having seasons

that are challenging or
difficult for some understanding

that there's there's always
purpose in the midst of it, and

remembering that God continues
to be in control, even though it

doesn't seem like things are in
control By by God, he always is

in control, yeah, and asking the
right questions, as far as like,

How can I be a part of that? How
can I do my part? How? What is

God wanting for me right now, in
this season, for my church, to

serve my church, to lead my
church to, you know, or just be

part of a church or anything, or
part of my community, part of my

family, that's that's a good
reminder that for me, it drives

me to push through the difficult
circumstances that we may be in.

And you know, there's going to
come a time where we look back

and we'll realize, oh, wow,
we've done all this or this,

this much has been accomplished,
even though we didn't feel like

it in the midst of it, there
will come a time where we kind

of look back and be like, yes,
we endured, where we remain

faithful and we, you know,
continued on whatever specific

responsibility, role, journey,
you Know, assignment that God

had for us in seasons,

Jessie Cruickshank: whether it's
us that listen to this later or

anyone else like in the moment.
I really believe it's going to

be a word to somebody of
encouragement. Thank you. We

hope so to bring it back. One
last question, as we've, as

we've kind of set the landscape
of what your missional work is,

the equipping work that you do,
the broadness of it, and then

the cultural moment that it
finds itself in. How do you see

God using both of those things
to help the Hispanic church

multiply? Because with the
Spanish speaking churches that

I've worked with, usually you
have to be 60 before you finally

get the in the leadership role,
right? Like, like, it's the only

way that it multiplies through,
you know, having kids and

beautiful family, you know,
dynamics. But there's not

really, like, leadership gaps.
It values the wisdom of age. So

bringing these things together,
how do you see how the Lord is

going to multiply the Hispanic
church in the United States and

across the rest of America?

Unknown: Yeah, I mean the
Hispanics just multiply more

than in general. Biologically,
we multiply more. So even if we

look at statistics and
geographic ground right now, I

think three out of four people
under 20 or under 18, three out

of four are Latinos. Can you
think about that for a moment,

75% of people under have over
under 18. So I think in just

physically or biologically,
that's gonna happen. But I think

just the drive that the Latino
church brings, and in Latin

America, multiplication has
happened more. And even the

story is not told in the US,
which is because the US you

know, the church, you know, they
have been, they focus on the

USA, right? So I truly believe
that as the Latino demographic

continues to grow, because it
will, there are, there will be,

and there are, right now, some
bumps along the way, along the

road, but I think we're going to
see more and more younger

leaders. You're saying. Yeah,
the reality is still older

majority. You know, 80% of the
churches are probably leaders

under over 60. But this next
generation, this new generation,

younger millennials, Gen Z or
older Gen Zers that are starting

to plant churches, they're
planting and reproducing at

higher rates than the previous
generation. So for instance, we

literally just had a meeting,
coffee meeting, with a couple

young, young church planters.
Couple during their early 30s,

they planted in pandemic, and
they've already planted a couple

churches. And there's actually
some research that shows that

younger leaders, or leaders
under 40, pastors under 40, I

think there's 85% of pastors
under 40 say that part of their

goals as a pastor in church is
to be a reproducing church. So

as you know, more younger
leaders become the majority.

It'll take time, right? But I
think we're gonna see a shift in

the health of the church, where
we're actually multiplying more,

and then we're starting to see a
younger set of, you know,

overall leadership that will
eventually kind of be the

majority of leadership. And it's
a shift that we really need to

be honest, because

it's a shift we're seeing
already. I think we're moving

that direction. Yeah, I think
we're seeing already, at least

in our circles, a lot of the a
lot of the people that we've

been speaking with and learning
from Mexico context, they're all

in their 40s or younger. It's
been kind of, it's been rare to

in Mexico. In the United States,
a different story in Mexico,

because they are a little more
ahead than the Spanish speaking

church. In the US, we do see a
lot more younger leaders. And

it's very rare for me to sit
with a 60 year old or a 50 year

old. Even here in Mexico, in the
United States, a very different

story. Yeah, in Mexico and in
Latin America, we've seen more

younger leaders than than than
older leaders, more seasoned

leaders, right? This is a value.
I'm approaching that season.

Jessie Cruickshank: And are they
doing it with the blessing of

the older generation? Are they
not? Is it not creating a

generational gap?

Unknown: It's getting there. I
don't think we're, we're fully

there yet. I think less than,
you know, I mean, less than 50%

of of those younger leaders that
are planting are with the

blessing of their previous
generation. And part of it is

just that red generational gap,
that traditional mindset of how

to start a church, you have to
wait. You're saying, You're

right on. You know, they have to
wait until they've paid their

their dues in leadership, and
then once the current pastor is

ready to, you know, go to God's
glory in heaven for eternity,

Jessie Cruickshank: not retire.
That's not a thing. That's not a

thing. Not retired, that's

Unknown: not a thing, yeah,

so we don't know how to retire,

yeah? So I think slowly, we'll
start getting there, but we're

not there yet. No,

but there is a passion in this
generation, I think because they

are, what we do see a lot is, is
we're tired of that, and people

are losing their salvation.
They're not. We're not reaching

these people. We're not. We're
not going to these people. We're

not We're not accepting or
inviting the people that need to

be looking we need to be serving
and looking for and we need to

be aggressive in our way of
finding lost people that need

the Lord. And this is why we
have this generation, I think of

just the passionate younger
leaders that are not going to

wait till they paid their dues.
They have work to do, and they

feel this, this need to do this
work. And so, yeah, that's

inspiring, and it completely
like, makes me Okay, we have

work to do. You know, we cannot
wait until we get the blessing

that's that's how I feel, like
they're like, we need to do this

now, with or without the
blessing, which is sad for the

older generation and the younger
generation and those and so that

that opens up a space for
there's a need for mentorship,

there's a need for pastors,
there's a Need for these

spiritual parents. And so these
older generation that do believe

in this younger generation, we
need to open up ourselves also

to help these younger generation
do the work that the Lord has

put upon their

Jessie Cruickshank: heart. Yeah,
that's so good and a bit more

focused and intentional
development, rather than just,

you know, watch me and come
alongside me for a long time.

We're gonna a little bit of an
acceleration. Well, you guys,

it's such a beautiful work that
you do. And I'm a huge fan, I

mean, to talk to you across you
know, Brazil, I have a huge

passion for justice, and the
United States being the second

largest Spanish speaking nation
in the world, and I speak

Spanish. Super poorly, but I've
been just across South America

so much and man, I mean, there's
you just fall in love with the

people group and and so for me,
that's, yeah, that's kind of

where why I come at this with a
bit of passion. So

Unknown: we thank you also. I
think this is a huge step for

you and for us to be able to
talk about these things, and for

you to open up spaces for the
Spanish speaking church, for

exponential Espanol, for how it
what are some of the things? How

are we multiplying our churches?
But also, how are we coming

along so side those people that
are vulnerable in this

situation, these in this season
and these conversations need to

happen. And we thank you also
for opening up the space to talk

about the Spanish speaking
church. And we're, of course,

the big fan of yours too. It's a
mutual we

Jessie Cruickshank: can move
each other back. I feel like my

Gen Z assistant, you know, said
she was in her first

conversation where someone was
like, Hey, I like you as a

friend. Do you like me as a
friend back? And it was her

first one of those as an adult.
And I'm like, Oh honey, we just

keep having those. Oh yeah,

Unknown: we need that. Well, we
need to tear each other on, you

know, it's different spaces and
different angles to the church,

but we need to have these spaces
to talk about them. And there's

other, you know, there's other
things going on in the world as

well that we need to be learning
about. And so, yeah, thank you

for this time. I appreciate it
so much. Well, you guys

Jessie Cruickshank: are
beautiful, and Thanks for Thanks

for Thanks for coming on and
sharing your heart and being a

little candid, a little
vulnerable.

Unknown: He's beautiful.

Jessie Cruickshank: That's
because he grabs the beard.

Unknown: Yeah, yeah, it's the
beard. Excuse me, a little

Jessie Cruickshank: bit of my
husband has a beer, but he's

Scottish, so it's all like
scraggly. There's nothing

elegant about it. It's,

Unknown: oh, there's way to fix
that, grooming it.

Jessie Cruickshank: Oh, man.
Well, thank you so much for

being with us today. I super
appreciate, yes, who you are and

what you do, and you are in my
prayers. And if you're listening

to this, will you please pray
for the Spanish speaking church

across the Americas, north,
south and central because they

need your prayers right now.

Unknown: Thank you very much.
Also for our Spanish church in

Spain, they are going through a
beautiful I think the Lord is

just like, Nope, I'm not losing
them too. So he's sending so

many missionaries from Latin
America to Spain, which is a

beautiful picture that the Lord
is giving us. You know that no

one's left behind. So, yeah, so
thankful for that.

Thank you for that. Thank you,
Jesse for having us. We've

enjoyed this time. And yeah,
thank you. Hopefully this

conversation is helpful to
anyone who's listening right

now,

Jessie Cruickshank: well, you
have been listening to the

ordinary discipleship podcast.
Remember, you can always learn

more@huology.co that's W, H, O,
o, l, o, G, y.co. Dot.